Woke with a chord question

GlenP

Country Gent
Double Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2019
2,556
WA
All this chord talk makes my brain hurt, kind of like after a Hard Days Night, that is.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
26,695
Tucson
Yep, the tritone, back in the Gregoraian chant days and probly even after.
It’s a fascinating interval; exactly one half of an octave. It has the power to harass, and the power to soothe, all at the same time. It forms the core of every Dominant 7th, which is a fairly common chord, that packs a sucker punch.

One of my favorite chord sequences is to us a flat five substitution involving dominants. It sounds like it shouldn’t work, but it’s actually a very smooth substitution.

Am7 / / / D7 / Ab7 b5 / G / / /

5x555x x5453x 4x453x 355433

If you wanted to get all Jazzy/Soft-Rock about it, you could substitute a G Maj7 for the G.

G Maj7

3x443x
 

Bertotti

Gretschified
Jul 20, 2017
10,157
South Dakota
I don’t fully get the v vii IV why upper case why lower case and what does it mean? I do believe it is the progression first fif they seventh etc but the I see people using upper case lower case or mixing it up. That confuses me.

I was recently listening to acoustic metal. I messaged a friend who has a golden ear. It seemed like acoustic bass and guitar not sure how many. But it also seemed like a drop d on guitar but not quite so he tell am yea drop d common but that all strings were down tunes a half step as well First.
then I remember listening to Dance To I gut but by Paul McCartnet on mandolin wondering if that’s a seventh or augmented chord of some sort. Gets my head going because I notice something other but can’t quite pick it out yet.

That leads to over thinking and dreaming about weird things. Then these questions.

The songs were Puddle of Mud acoustic of Control. And Eleine’s acoustic metal album these probably not being good to post pinkos of here

and Dance tonight.
 

Pine Apple Slim

Country Gent
Dec 14, 2011
1,943
North Alabama
Can’t help you with the tunes but upper case Roman numerals denote major and lower case minor.
in C
I chord is C maj, CEG
ii chord is Dm, DFG
iii chord is Em EGD
IV chord is F FAC
V chord is maj GBD
vi chord is minor ACE
the vii is diminished BDF, minor third and a flat five, usually lower case [email protected] little degree symbol after(I think) I’d just say Bdim
 
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Seamus

Country Gent
Feb 25, 2011
1,131
New England
I feel like insomnia coupled with music theory may have been the birth of jazz.

Synchro, you nail it yet again! I'm wondering if you mean, in the below, xx645x? Or perhaps you like your intervals, as a Frenchman of my acquaintance says, "tangy?" :)
If there was another guitarist playing rhythm, I would play triads, in the higher register.

E A B7

xx756x Xx765x xx787x


I love this:
One of my favorite chord sequences is to us a flat five substitution involving dominants. It sounds like it shouldn’t work, but it’s actually a very smooth substitution.

Am7 / / / D7 / Ab7 b5 / G / / /

Which is also quite similar to a cliche of sorts in the Gypsy Jazz tradition that some players go absolutely mad with, including John Jorgenson. You do exactly that tritone sub on the dominant 7, but run it up the neck rapidly with a very fast 1-3-2-1 picking pattern. So if you were playing over an E7:

xxx434 xxx767 xxx10/9/10 xxx13/12/13

Also does super-interesting things if you use it in other genres like rockabilly.
 
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Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
26,695
Tucson
I don’t fully get the v vii IV why upper case why lower case and what does it mean? I do believe it is the progression first fif they seventh etc but the I see people using upper case lower case or mixing it up. That confuses me.

I was recently listening to acoustic metal. I messaged a friend who has a golden ear. It seemed like acoustic bass and guitar not sure how many. But it also seemed like a drop d on guitar but not quite so he tell am yea drop d common but that all strings were down tunes a half step as well First.
then I remember listening to Dance To I gut but by Paul McCartnet on mandolin wondering if that’s a seventh or augmented chord of some sort. Gets my head going because I notice something other but can’t quite pick it out yet.

That leads to over thinking and dreaming about weird things. Then these questions.

The songs were Puddle of Mud acoustic of Control. And Eleine’s acoustic metal album these probably not being good to post pinkos of here

and Dance tonight.

I have heard of people using lower case for minor chords, and upper case for Major chords, which has its charms, but I don‘t know that it’s a universal convention. I personally use upper case, unless I forget to hit the Caps Lock.

That McCartney song was tricky. I looked it up, but as soon as I saw the way the changes were written, it made perfect sense. The song is in F Major, and uses a I, IV, V with an F pedal point. To get close to the mandolin sound, I would voice it like this, on guitar.

F C/F F C/F
xx3565 xx3553 xx3565 xx3553


Bb/F C/F F
xx3331 xx3565 xx3553


I feel like insomnia coupled with music theory may have been the birth of jazz.

Synchro, you nail it yet again! I'm wondering if you mean, in the below, xx645x? Or perhaps you like your intervals, as a Frenchman of my acquaintance says, "tangy?" :)



I love this:


Which is also quite similar to a cliche of sorts in the Gypsy Jazz tradition that some players go absolutely mad with, including John Jorgenson. You do exactly that tritone sub on the dominant 7, but run it up the neck rapidly with a very fast 1-3-2-1 picking pattern. So if you were playing over an E7:

xxx434 xxx767 xxx10/9/10 xxx13/12/13

Also does super-interesting things if you use it in other genres like rockabilly.
You’re right, that should have been xx645x. I’ll edit my earlier post.

I love that run you bring up. All variations of an E7, but used as if they were diminished chords. Another one you can do, that gets a bit “outside”, would be this:

xx3454 xx6787 xx9/10/11/10 xx12/13/14/13

Now you have a Major triad (second inversion) on top, and repeating in minor thirds. I don’t know if it would work in Gypsy Jazz, but it works in Fusion, or very edgy Blues.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
26,695
Tucson
Can’t help you with the tunes but upper case Roman numerals denote major and lower case minor.
in C
I chord is C maj, CEG
ii chord is Dm, DFG
iii chord is Em EGD
IV chord is F FAC
V chord is maj GBD
vi chord is minor ACE
the vii is diminished BDF, minor third and a flat five, usually lower case [email protected] little degree symbol after(I think) I’d just say Bdim
I’ve seen it written tat way, but I’ve also seen people that didn’t use the convention. I don’t think that there are any hard and fast rules, as there are in notation. Could you give some clarification on how to handle Diminished chords? Any shorthand for Augmented?
 

Pine Apple Slim

Country Gent
Dec 14, 2011
1,943
North Alabama
<<<<<I have heard of people using lower case for minor chords, and upper case for Major chords, which has its charms, but I don‘t know that it’s a universal convention. I personally use upper case, unless I forget to hit the Caps Lock>>>>>>>
I read somewhere the Roman numeral/upper/lower case convention comes from the classical theory world.
nowadays the “Nashville Number System” using Arabic numerals,or some variation thereof is probably used just as much or more.
1
2- minor is usually denoted w a minus sign, or an m
3m
4
5
6-
7 usually means the flat 7 of the key, the maj chord a whole step below the root.

diminished is usually denoted with a degree symbol, dim, or
m7b5 for half dIminished
augmented is a plus sign +, aug, or sometimes I’ve seen a triangle used maybe?
 
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Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
26,695
Tucson
<<<<<I have heard of people using lower case for minor chords, and upper case for Major chords, which has its charms, but I don‘t know that it’s a universal convention. I personally use upper case, unless I forget to hit the Caps Lock>>>>>>>
I read somewhere the Roman numeral/upper/lower case convention comes from the classical theory world.
nowadays the “Nashville Number System” using Arabic numerals,or some variation thereof is probably used just as much or more.
1
2- minor is usually denoted w a minus sign, or an m
3m
4
5
6-
7 usually means the flat 7 of the key, the maj chord a whole step below the root.

diminished is usually denoted with a degree symbol, dim, or
m7b5 for half dIminished
augmented is a plus sign +, aug, or sometimes I’ve seen a triangle used maybe?
I’ve always just thought in terms of the ordinal position of each chord, within the tone center. So:

I Major
II minor
III minor
IV Major
V Dom
VI minor
VII dim

The flaw in this, is that it doesn’t adapt well as a form of shorthand for chord charts, but it’s dandy for analyzing songs and tone centers.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
26,695
Tucson
A lot of my jazz books use a triangle for a maj7.

And the other weird one -- a zero with a slash through it for a half-diminished.
I’ve seen the triangle as Maj7 and the dash as minor. The slashed zero makes sense for half diminished, which term I prefer greatly, over “minor 7th, flat 5”, which is wearisome.
 

Pine Apple Slim

Country Gent
Dec 14, 2011
1,943
North Alabama
I’ve always just thought in terms of the ordinal position of each chord, within the tone center. So:

I Major
II minor
III minor
IV Major
V Dom
VI minor
VII dim

The flaw in this, is that it doesn’t adapt well as a form of shorthand for chord charts, but it’s dandy for analyzing songs and tone centers.
That makes perfect sense as long as the tune is strictly diatonic. Where you get into problems is when major or dominant chords are used instead of the within key diatonic minors. This turns up a lot in folk music, jazz, or blues . For example the typical 5 of 5 progression, 1>2>5>1, in C, C>D(7)>G(7)>C. This works because D(7)is the 5th of G(7) which is the 5th of the tonic C.
also I’m reminded of the Salty Dog Blues, a fairly common folk and bluegrass tune that goes 1>6>2>5, all major or dominant. In G it goes G>E(7)>A(7)>D(7)>G.
 


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