Setzer's exact echo time

[Merc]

Tavo
Whe you said Setzer would run a finished song through an exhoplex-how is that done ?
I read the fabulous thunderbirds did that too.

What is the actual process ? Plugging an ep2 into the board ??

I’ve wondered as well. As in is it the semi final mix recording through it or is the Echoplex worked in some how to the live board.

I started running my Nocturne Atomic Brain (RE301) preamp a while back through my Epoch Deluxe after hearing about it. It may be minor to some, but both preamps compliment each other really well.

 

[Merc]

Just throwing this out there. Is it possible to overthink this stuff?

I feel for the preamps affects on overall tone, definitely not.

As for the repeat time, in a way yes for most songs. Unless maybe it’s a slower cover like Sleepwalk and someone’s trying to nail it. Honestly, years ago I wondered the same thing on the repeats. Until I realized one day to just close my eyes and use my ears.

 

[ruger9]

Just throwing this out there. Is it possible to overthink this stuff?

I guarantee you Setzer didn't overthink it. He bought the blonde batsman because he "thought it looked cool." I've never heard when he discovered the Space Echo, but he did say "then when I found the Space Echo, it was the final piece of the puzzle." He basically fell into his rig- he tried stuff, then when he got the Bassman/Space Echo combo, he's stuck with it ever since. Yes, he uses other stuff in the studio because he can, and because he owns alot of old stuff.

It's true he has V30s in his live cabs... I'm guessing that's more for durability than tone. And yeah we can talk about his 50-100ft cables, or his heavy duty speaker cables, etc... But I don't think Setzer has spent a 1/100th of the time analyzing his gear/tone as most of us have.

He wanted a 6120 because Eddie Cochran had one.
He wanted a blonde bassman because it looked cool.
He stumbled onto a Space Echo at some point and tried it.
Once he found this magic combination, he stuck with it instead of constantly searching for greener grass. Because it's REALLY ABOUT THE MUSIC.

 

[Bertotti]

Have

I’ve wondered as well. As in is it the semi final mix recording through it or is the Echoplex worked in some how to the live board.

I started running my Nocturne Atomic Brain (RE301) preamp a while back through my Epoch Deluxe after hearing about it. It may be minor to some, but both preamps compliment each other really well.

you tried this with a brain and an El Pescadoro? You might be pleasantly surprised but I won’t claim it is Setzer like.

 

[radd]

Just throwing this out there. Is it possible to overthink this stuff?

I need to think about that

 

[Merc]

Have

you tried this with a brain and an El Pescadoro? You might be pleasantly surprised but I won’t claim it is Setzer like.

I love the El Pescadoro/JR Barnyard preamp. I normally run it with the Echoplex for when I want a more vintage tone. The Brain with it isn’t bad but it brightens it a bit much for that vibe I use it for.

I wanted Setzer’s tone at one point. That’s why I bought my first Atomic Brain since it’s key. The past year I’m usually playing my offset Tele’s with it. The RE301 preamp sounds stellar with both Tele and P90’s and in non rockabilly too. It doesn’t sound like Setzer with those pickups. But it’s great and magical to my ears.

 

[ruger9]

I love the El Pescadoro/JR Barnyard preamp. I normally run it with the Echoplex for when I want a more vintage tone. The Brain with it isn’t bad but it brightens it a bit much for that vibe I use it for.

I wanted Setzer’s tone at one point. That’s why I bought my first Atomic Brain since it’s key. The past year I’m usually playing my offset Tele’s with it. The RE301 preamp sounds stellar with both Tele and P90’s and in non rockabilly too. It doesn’t sound like Setzer with those pickups. But it’s great and magical to my ears.

I too chased Setzer's tone for awhile. Finally realized that unless I play THAT rig, and at that VOLUME, it wasn't gonna' happen. So I quit trying and just enjoyed myself instead LOL.

As much as I love Setzer's tones, I am not a Filtertron fan. Never got along with them. It's kind of like Setzer said about solidbody guitars: "I just can't get a tone out of them."

 

[Merc]

I too chased Setzer's tone for awhile. Finally realized that unless I play THAT rig, and at that VOLUME, it wasn't gonna' happen. So I quit trying and just enjoyed myself instead LOL.

As much as I love Setzer's tones, I am not a Filtertron fan. Never got along with them. It's kind of like Setzer said about solidbody guitars: "I just can't get a tone out of them."

Awesome you just started enjoying yourself. I’m aware some players here may not like Tom Morello from Rage Against The Machine. I remember one interview where he was asked basically how he found his sound. Tom said he used to buy all sort of gear in search of and grew tired of it. One day he just decided to adjust his equipment to get the best tone out of it and that would be his sound. I’m sure there are other greats that basically just played, became great at what they play, and the tone they had became well liked and associated with them.

 

[cielski]

As Ricky Nelson taught us, "You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself."

 

[Srellim1]

The Belle Epoch Deluxe likes to go before dirt. I use it into a Ubangi Stomp into a Mystery Bran. The preamps blend very well together. It’s very dynamic and this gives you multiple echo options. The two together are pretty much magic.There, I said it. It’s not Setzer per se, but it does sound pretty swell.

 

[TV the Wired Turtle]

I guarantee you Setzer didn't overthink it. He bought the blonde batsman because he "thought it looked cool." I've never heard when he discovered the Space Echo, but he did say "then when I found the Space Echo, it was the final piece of the puzzle." He basically fell into his rig- he tried stuff, then when he got the Bassman/Space Echo combo, he's stuck with it ever since. Yes, he uses other stuff in the studio because he can, and because he owns alot of old stuff.

It's true he has V30s in his live cabs... I'm guessing that's more for durability than tone. And yeah we can talk about his 50-100ft cables, or his heavy duty speaker cables, etc... But I don't think Setzer has spent a 1/100th of the time analyzing his gear/tone as most of us have.

He wanted a 6120 because Eddie Cochran had one.
He wanted a blonde bassman because it looked cool.
He stumbled onto a Space Echo at some point and tried it.
Once he found this magic combination, he stuck with it instead of constantly searching for greener grass. Because it's REALLY ABOUT THE MUSIC.

Dont you think Setzer has been pulling the publics leg, foolin you like Colombo( pre millennials cop tv show) pretending he doesnt know whats going on when he's actually behind it all.?
Setzer has always been large and in charge, focused and purpose driven. has EVERYTHING dialed in from stage props, lighting, outfits, even his signage. I was told from a direct source that he gave a particular stage crew an earbashing for not properly hanging a Straycats sign on a reunion tour. As well as plenty of firings for not keeping up his standards.
I've talked a few times w both his tech, and (I wont say which one said this so that no one gets guff but) even he says that Setzer is VERY particular about every sound, and guitar and the tubes and the way the amps behave and the space echoes. Dude he even had Tom Jones carefully build a Blonde bassman into a Wurlitzer, he is a kookoo gear nutt like we are.

Here is Brian waaaay back before the Straycats in Bloodless Pharoahs w his brother gary on drums with his Blonde Bassman and Gretsch next to it(didnt see the space echo but it sounded like he had the double heads going w chorus on the album)! Watch his face..He's playing while carefully monitoring everybody in the band so they are playing their best. The one who didnt care much always caught shlip from him, in this band it was fisticuffs w his brother when he forgot his drumsticks at one gig and came in w some branches off a schrub to play with. haha.

 

[TV the Wired Turtle]

Just throwing this out there. Is it possible to overthink this stuff?

I live to think about every aspect of guitar tone and its geekery, yet Its not overthinking, its being strategic for guitar tone.
Be it live on stage, or in the studio, its all thought out and planned for. Every bit of gear, even down to the inches a mic is placed to a speaker grill and the angle as well as phasing. Brian is constantly changing his live stage mics and runs a mic to each speaker on the cab. He's trying to get the best live sound he can to get as close as he can to what he recorded in the studio.

Remember we arent just listening to a dudes fingers on a fretboard, even though thats were the main talent exists. We are listening to particular microphones and particular mic preamps in the studio, on the speakers before it even hits protools.

This is a fun one, here's Brian playing first the (isolated) rhythm track to "Honey Man" from his classical music meets rockabilly big band album
"Wolfgangs Big Night Out". (click audio links posted)
Everyone thinks they are listening to a blonde 6G6B bassman w a roland re-301 space echo, but that isnt always the
case in the Studio with Brian and he is crazy picky about his sound and the laying that goes on in the process.
So on the rhythm track, he is using the following rig:
Gretch 6120, 59 Bassman amp. One Royer Ribbon R-121 mic, 2 1/2 ft in front of the amp.
Recording chain: Royer ribbon mic R-121 into a Neve 1066 mic preamp.
isolated audio rhythm track:

and then the Solo/Lead track isolated as well, note diff amp plus Universal audio limiter after the preamp:
Gretch 6120, Supro amp. Royer ribbon R-121 mic - 8 inches back and centered on the speaker, and shure SM57 mic off axis, on the grill, 2 inches from cone center.
Recording chain: Royer ribbon mic R-121 & shure SM57 into Neve 1066 mic preamps (shure SM57 mic fed into a Universal Audio 1176 limiter after the pre).
Solo lead track for Brian Setzer, honey man

And then the whole track with both these mixed in:

Brian Setzer recording set up for Wolfgang's big night out.
Produced by Dave Darling. Engineered by John Holbrook.
Band recorded at Capitol Studios, Los Angeles CA.
Guitars and vocals recorded at Flowers Studio, Minneapolis MN.

 

[TV the Wired Turtle]

Tavo
Whe you said Setzer would run a finished song through an exhoplex-how is that done ?
I read the fabulous thunderbirds did that too.

What is the actual process ? Plugging an ep2 into the board ??

Well going back even further than the BSO, Brian learned this trick of running a tape echo into the mixing consoles effects buss from Dave Edmunds early on.
When Brian Setzer recorded “Rock This Town,” he plugged his 1959 Gretsch 6120 directly into Eden Studios’ SSL 4000E console—a technique favored by producer Dave Edmunds, who recorded his own guitar parts for Rockpile’s Seconds of Pleasure album at Eden using the same method just a few months before. The SSL console’s preamps, EQ and compressors helped generate amp-like warmth and body while retaining crystalline clarity, and a touch of vintage ambience came courtesy of a tape echo unit patched into the board.

For example later w BSO, Brian's Vavoom Album was engineered by John Holbrook.
Holbrook said Setzer generally cut his vocals with a U47, and his tracks were processed with the Echoplex. On Brian’s amps, he used a combination of microphones, Shure SM57 and an old Neumann 67 tube.
Holbrook recorded the BSO on two 24-track Studer analog recorders, equipped with a V Series Neve console with Flying Faders.
Brian Setzer shared that :John Holbrook has an old Echoplex, and after the band is recorded, we take the Echoplex and just slap it over the whole track.

 

[SLICKFASTER]

 

[Bertotti]

@TV the Wired Turtle Geekery? Is that what we’re calling it now? And Colombo? I always thought he was more like Quincy, always digging and dissecting things until he had the whole picture. Don’t get me started on Kojak! Hahhaa kidding you knowledge of this is astounding! Borderline or maybe full on OCD But Greeley sounds pretty good also! Now I need an echo Plex box or plug-in in Logic.

 

[Synchro]

I have no doubt that Setzer has a handle on everything, but in the same breath, I would agree that it’s possible, even likely, to overthink all of this. I agree with Tavo to a great degree, because I see all of this as an engineering problem.

My job is to design communications between various sites, and to implement the security for these comm links. On the surface, it’s actually pretty simple, but the devil is in the details, and I earn my keep by being able to think of some detail that no one else thought of. All of my life, I’ve always been the guy that sees things from a slightly different perspective, and it has come in handy.

When it comes to guitar, I operate on more than one level. I have enough electrical theory and background to have a decent handle on guitar electrics, effects, amplifiers and acoustics. I don’t claim to have engineering-level understanding, but enough to give me a leg up. Likewise, I look at guitar playing as applied music theory and I love to evaluate different techniques to optimize fingerings, etc. These are things I love to think about, and I even have dreams about these subjects.

I would venture that Setzer has a similar interest in his gear, and his sound. He may have bought the Blonde Bassman because it looked cool, but if it hadn‘t delivered a sound he found acceptable, he would not have kept it.

So, I guess that I split the difference. I believe that it’s good to learn as much as one reasonably can about gear, and I believe that this will help in finding one’s own sound. But there’s an important point to this, which is that we have to find our own sound. Ultimately, you will sound like you, I will sound like me, and Setzer will sound like Setzer. If I’m playing Stray Cat Strut, I’ll use some delay and go for an impression of Setzer’s sound, but I’m not going to rack my brain in an attempt to sound exactly like Brian Setzer, or anyone else.

This is where I believe that overthinking can become problematic. If I was handed Clapton’s Strat, plugged into his stage rig, I would sound different from him. I would sound like me; because who else could I possibly sound like?

I’m a big believer in finding your own sound, and I allowing your gear to give you its best, which might be quite different from what you’d hear from someone else playing your rig. I have made peace with myself, and with my gear, and I think that’s the best any of us can hope for.

 

[ruger9]

Dont you think Setzer has been pulling the publics leg, foolin you like Colombo( pre millennials cop tv show) pretending he doesnt know whats going on when he's actually behind it all.?
Setzer has always been large and in charge, focused and purpose driven. has EVERYTHING dialed in from stage props, lighting, outfits, even his signage. I was told from a direct source that he gave a particular stage crew an earbashing for not properly hanging a Straycats sign on a reunion tour. As well as plenty of firings for not keeping up his standards.
I've talked a few times w both his tech, and (I wont say which one said this so that no one gets guff but) even he says that Setzer is VERY particular about every sound, and guitar and the tubes and the way the amps behave and the space echoes. Dude he even had Tom Jones carefully build a Blonde bassman into a Wurlitzer, he is a kookoo gear nutt like we are.

View attachment 204951

Here is Brian waaaay back before the Straycats in Bloodless Pharoahs w his brother gary on drums with his Blonde Bassman and Gretsch next to it(didnt see the space echo but it sounded like he had the double heads going w chorus on the album)! Watch his face..He's playing while carefully monitoring everybody in the band so they are playing their best. The one who didnt care much always caught shlip from him, in this band it was fisticuffs w his brother when he forgot his drumsticks at one gig and came in w some branches off a schrub to play with. haha.

Oh sure, he "did it his way" no doubt (see what I did there? LOL).

I'm not saying he wasn't paying attention or wasn't in control. I'm just saying I don't think he OBSESSED about speaker cable gauge, and how many milliseconds his slapback should be. He simply found what he liked, and kept using it.

I remember when he was actually a member on GDP for a short while (before he got ran off by jerks)... there was a thread about fretwear and string action, and I remember people having debates about how "critical" these things become, obsessing over having to get a fret dress or something... and I remember Setzer saying (basically, I'm paraphrasing), "jeez guys, what's the big deal? If you've got a little string buzz, just raise the action a little."

THAT'S what I mean about not overthinking/obsessing about it. Of course he had TVJ as his personal luthier, and his guitars were set up exactly like he likes them. But that's not the same thing as obsession over minute details. The dude JUST PLAYED (instead of spending days on Internet forums debating the finer points of speaker cone aging or fretwire composition LOL)

Now 'scuse me while I go refret my Hot Rod with 6105s (even tho it doesn't need it), because unless the fret size is EXACTLY what I want, I can't play the thing LOL. Maybe I'll change the gauge of the wiring harness too LOL

[EDIT]
Of course I haven't forgotten Setzer's rig, tho simple, was tweaked to perfection. 6G6B (B ONLY), original transformers, 5881's, Chinese 12AX7s, larger gauge speaker cable, V30s, old Space Echo, 50-100ft guitar cable... he was paying attention. I just think he was paying alot more attention to playing than to gear.

 

[SLICKFASTER]

Now if just one of us could say that they’ve actually met the man, sat with him, got to experience what kind of individual he is, have the privilege to discuss his passion…and all this while he watched you play his #1…

 

[ruger9]

Now if just one of us could say that they’ve actually met the man, sat with him, got to experience what kind of individual he is, have the privilege to discuss his passion…and all this while he watched you play his #1…

you asked for it paging @TV the Wired Turtle

 

[SLICKFASTER]