Gretsch Pages down?

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,814
Tucson
That word goes back to my days in a liberal Christian seminary when I might have become the Reverend Doctor Milktruck. I dust it off every so often.
So, you were irreverent and had to settle for just being a doctor? :)

I recall that you had been in a seminary.
 

wabash slim

I Bleed Orange
Feb 10, 2010
17,502
lafayette in
It seems that when Baxter pulled out of running the GDP and Rocky took over, things just sort of stopped cold. Not sure of what happened on Rocky's end, but it could've just been overwhelming as he has a business to run above all
I recall that you had been in a seminary.
He's not the only one. I looked into it as a high school freshman. Just wasn't meant for me.
 

Bertotti

Friend of Fred
Jul 20, 2017
9,384
South Dakota
My grandmother had evangelical collage stuff sent to me! And wanted me to be a Catholic Priest! No offense to catholic but me and them didn’t see eye to eye to on a lot of things.
 

wabash slim

I Bleed Orange
Feb 10, 2010
17,502
lafayette in
My grandmother had evangelical collage stuff sent to me! And wanted me to be a Catholic Priest! No offense to catholic but me and them didn’t see eye to eye to on a lot of things.
They wisely had a coed Catholic Youth summer camp on the seminary grounds.
Things convinced me not to stay.
 

Randy99CL

Country Gent
Feb 17, 2020
2,094
Albuquerque
I used TGP as an information source and learned a lot. Registered my G5129T, that registry gave us a lot of concrete info. Manufacturing dates, model changes, etc.
Never posted on the forums.

I've been a railfan all my life and when a teen picked the Pittsburg & Lake Erie as my favorite RR and the one I wanted to model. It was small but local to me, I lived about half way between Cleveland (lake Erie) and Pittsburg.
For a couple of decades there was a great P&LE website. Lots of members with info and thousands of pics. Documents, history, tons of interesting information. Those pictures were really valuable to someone wanting to model a particular engine, railroad car or building.
About five years ago that website disappeared. I've never been able to find out what happened but I suspect it was a one-man operation and either couldn't afford the cost or time. All that content is gone, I haven't been able to find anyone who knows anything. It just disappeared and I am crushed.

I hope someone can get TGP running again, even if it is only for a month or long enough for us to download what we want. It will suck if all that content is lost. Accurail 20732.jpg
 
Last edited:

ruger9

Country Gent
Nov 1, 2008
3,487
NJ
There's ZERO reason for anyone to have any vehemence or dislike of the GDP. Their forum software was always unreliable, yes. Alot of us complained about it periodically, yes. Baxter seemed not interested in changing it, yes. But GDP wasn't just full of good information, it was full of good PEOPLE. AND we actually held get-togethers where we met each other, got to know each other better, jam, and become friends. It was a wonderful little Gretsch community. And to me it had more of a family feel than G-T does. I like and appreciate both sites, I'll never understand people's need to always go to the competitive "this one's better" mentality. With all due respect, grow up and get over yourself, this ain't high school anymore. :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

MrWookiee

Country Gent
Jun 17, 2020
1,424
SoCal, USA
There's ZERO reason for anyone to have any vehemence or dislike of the GDP. Their forum software was always unreliable, yes. Alot of us complained about it periodically, yes. Baxter seemed not interested in changing it, yes. But GDP wasn't just full of good information, it was full of good PEOPLE. AND we actually held get-togethers where we met each other, got to know each other better, jam, and become friends. It was a wonderful little Gretsch community. And to me it had more of a family feel than G-T does. I like and appreciate both sites, I'll never understand people's need to always go to the competitive "this one's better" mentality. With all due respect, grow up and get over yourself, this ain't high school anymore. :rolleyes:
There is a lot of that "competitive" stuff going on lately in society in general. I can't comment as to "G-T vs TGP" per se because I didn't play much on TGP. I do like folks on G-T though. To my specific point, I detest the attitude of, "My preferred <whatever> is the best, and if you like any of its rivals you're a <vulgar euphemism meaning 'reprehensible human being'>". Things are rarely as cut-and-dried as they may seem.
 

Powdog

Electromatic
Mar 15, 2012
80
Cool,CA
I’m not a computer guy, 100% analog brain. I’ve noticed that this forum, the TDPRI forum and The Gear Page forum all have the exact same format, screen layout and adds. I’m probably the last guy on the block to notice this. The Gretsch Pages always felt less “corporate” to me, like a guy (Bax) was running the site from behind the curtain instead of a computer program. Same great folks, same great discussions.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,814
Tucson
Things are rarely as cut-and-dried as they may seem.
Well said.

I‘ve never wished the demise of the GDP. The forum software was not to my liking, and that was a major contributing factor in my leaving, 14 years ago. The lack of notifications meant that I had to spend time tracking down the threads I was active in, and that was too much like the work I did in my day job. There came a point when it began to seem a burden, and I decided that it was time to leave. Literally, the next day, G-T went online and I’ve been here ever since. There were some friction points over the years, between some members, but I’ve tried to stay out of the fray.

If members of the GDP want to come here, I’m fine with it, but the same rules that we all live with at G-T will apply. IOW, no politics, no gun talk, etc. There are GDP members who were banned from G-T for various reasons, and that should stand. It’s been my experience that restoring banned users makes about as much sense as remarrying your ex-wife, it’s all but inevitable that there will be future problems.

I take no pleasure in what has happened to the GDP, but I think it was inevitable. The forum software was apparently not being updated, and the Internet, particularly the World Wide Web, changes rapidly. 20 years ago, if you wanted to have a forum, you built a server, hooked it to the Internet, published the address, and away you went. These days, if you want to have a forum, you go to a Cloud hosting company, provision a server and go from there. The software is different, as is the OS and the entire environment. The economies of having a forum have changed drastically in the last 20 years. I’m just grateful that we have what we have at G-T and that the forum owners provide a place for us to meet.
 

wabash slim

I Bleed Orange
Feb 10, 2010
17,502
lafayette in
I used TGP as an information source and learned a lot. Registered my G5129T, that registry gave us a lot of concrete info. Manufacturing dates, model changes, etc.
Never posted on the forums.

I've been a railfan all my life and when a teen picked the Pittsburg & Lake Erie as my favorite RR and the one I wanted to model. It was small but local to me, I lived about half way between Cleveland (lake Erie) and Pittsburg.
For a couple of decades there was a great P&LE website. Lots of members with info and thousands of pics. Documents, history, tons of interesting information. Those pictures were really valuable to someone wanting to model a particular engine, railroad car or building.
About five years ago that website disappeared. I've never been able to find out what happened but I suspect it was a one-man operation and either couldn't afford the cost or time. All that content is gone, I haven't been able to find anyone who knows anything. It just disappeared and I am crushed.

I hope someone can get TGP running again, even if it is only for a month or long enough for us to download what we want. It will suck if all that content is lost. View attachment 182136
I'd like to model the CSS&SB (Chicago, South Shore & South Bend), but finding specialized electric locos and such is a nightmare. Interurban cars are impossible to find.

Who's got the computer storage space--and time and effort---to download and store all of that info? Like a model railroad, building and maintaining a website is a labor of love, and a neverending hobby.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,814
Tucson
I’m not a computer guy, 100% analog brain. I’ve noticed that this forum, the TDPRI forum and The Gear Page forum all have the exact same format, screen layout and adds. I’m probably the last guy on the block to notice this. The Gretsch Pages always felt less “corporate” to me, like a guy (Bax) was running the site from behind the curtain instead of a computer program. Same great folks, same great discussions.
You might want to see my comments directly below your post. Yes, G-T is part of a larger company which hosts many forums. The day of the hobby forum is long in the past. I can think of several forums I’ve visited over the years which were based upon free, or nearly free software. This works fine for a very small forum, but it’s not economically viable unless the forum is very small.

Forums are businesses; get used to it. Cloud hosting costs can mount exceptionally rapidly, far beyond the ability of the average individual to absorb. In order for any of us to have an online meeting place, that meeting place has to be capable of paying for its hosting costs, and unless the forum is making a profit there’s no motive to keep in online. I’ve spoken to the owner of G-T, and he’s a great guy, that grew into the forum business. He’s not some cold impersonal corporation, but like any business owner, he can’t afford to give away money. I don’t know how much profit G-T earns, but I know that in its early days, the annual profit was less than I take home every two weeks. If anyone thinks that someone is getting rich from G-T, they are mistaken. If it weren’t at least somewhat profitable, it wouldn’t exist. I’m just grateful that we have what we have.

As I said before, the day of the hobby forum is long in the past.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,814
Tucson
Who's got the computer storage space--and time and effort---to download and store all of that info? Like a model railroad, building and maintaining a website is a labor of love, and a neverending hobby.
if there is a way to salvage that data, and I hope that there is, my opinion is that it would best be part of a stand-alone website. As opposed to the compute, storage, bandwidth, etc. of a forum, that data possibly could be presented either as simple HTML (a bespoke page {.HTML file} for each guitar) or possibly dynamic page creation using a backend SQL server. The hosting costs for something like this would be relatively modest. I’m not really a web developer, but I wouldn’t be surprised if among our members, there wasn’t someone with the necessary skills to make quick work of it. About all I could offer with regard t9 that is that I would request that we place a link to that site here at G-T. Ionos could host something like this for about $10 per month. (See the screenshot below.)

I’d offer, but it would be literally years before I could spare the time required to develop it. I have the next three years planned out to the last detail, and I can’t spend 40-50+ hours per week working on tech stuff, then come home and spend my spare time developing a website. However, I can offer this: (Lots of “ifs“ to resolve before any of this can happen.) If, the GDP is not coming back online, and if the owner of that data consents to releasing copyright pro bono, and if it can be separated from the forum software, I would be glad to offer data-at-rest storage for it until someone can provide a permanent home with web access. If, anyone wants to take on this project, they can contact whomever actually owns the data (Baxter? Tim Harmon? Rocky?) and PM me with their contact information, then I’ll contact them directly and can then provision an SFTP site where the data can be uploaded as a temporary storage solution. This data would be inaccessible from that SFTP site, it would just be data storage until a website could be created.

08C4CF16-F89A-43B4-B006-A7AFA76C7F94.png
 

wabash slim

I Bleed Orange
Feb 10, 2010
17,502
lafayette in
if there is a way to salvage that data, and I hope that there is, my opinion is that it would best be part of a stand-alone website. As opposed to the compute, storage, bandwidth, etc. of a forum, that data possibly could be presented either as simple HTML (a bespoke page {.HTML file} for each guitar) or possibly dynamic page creation using a backend SQL server. The hosting costs for something like this would be relatively modest. I’m not really a web developer, but I wouldn’t be surprised if among our members, there wasn’t someone with the necessary skills to make quick work of it. About all I could offer with regard t9 that is that I would request that we place a link to that site here at G-T. Ionos could host something like this for about $10 per month. (See the screenshot below.)

I’d offer, but it would be literally years before I could spare the time required to develop it. I have the next three years planned out to the last detail, and I can’t spend 40-50+ hours per week working on tech stuff, then come home and spend my spare time developing a website. However, I can offer this: (Lots of “ifs“ to resolve before any of this can happen.) If, the GDP is not coming back online, and if the owner of that data consents to releasing copyright pro bono, and if it can be separated from the forum software, I would be glad to offer data-at-rest storage for it until someone can provide a permanent home with web access. If, anyone wants to take on this project, they can contact whomever actually owns the data (Baxter? Tim Harmon? Rocky?) and PM me with their contact information, then I’ll contact them directly and can then provision an SFTP site where the data can be uploaded as a temporary storage solution. This data would be inaccessible from that SFTP site, it would just be data storage until a website could be created.

View attachment 182143
You'd think that Gretsch Co. itself would be interested in saving the history and database.
I doubt any other maker would have that level of historic detail.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,814
Tucson
I will be blunt. Those trying to save the GDP should give up. It was on life support before the crash and will not recover even if brought back online. Why spend the time and money to resuscitate it? The focus should be on saving the great amount of data there in some archival form. Hopefully Gretsch would be interested in hosting the database and other information.

Gretsch Talk shouldn't rejoice. I think the GDP was mostly the obstructionist group, but I haven't found GT to be very irenic either.

I hope people didn’t take from my post that I’m against the GDP either. I was there before here and was still checking both, although posting much more here. I was making the same point as Synchro. The volume of posts there had dropped off significantly prior to the crash though
Forums have life cycles. I’ve belonged to probably a dozen guitar or amp forums over the years and I’ve seen forums go from viable communities to closed societies which were hostile to new members. Once that happens, start the countdown timer, because unless there is a 180 degree change in direction, that forum will lose its viability.

(None of what I say below is meant as criticism to the GDP.)

Forums need new members in order to survive. If a forum doesn’t have a steady influx of new members, it will wither and die. We have several G-T members whom are pillars of the community, and I appreciate these people greatly, but every one of these members started out as a new member and unless they were welcomed to the community from day one they never would have stayed with us. Some people come here just to obtain answers to specific questions, and it’s important that we make them feel welcome and let them know that we are willing to share our knowledge.

Some members are here for the sense of community, and they are the body and soul of the forum. New members are like the lifeblood of the forum. They refresh and renew the forum. Lifeblood is constantly refreshed and carries oxygen and nutrition to the cells of the body. New members liven the discussion and keep things fresh. Then there are the core members; the fellows that post very frequently and have a deep history on the forum. I see these members as the framework of the forum. They give us shape and set the tone. I appreciate these members greatly.

My role as moderator, and I think I’m safe in speaking for Thunder 58, is to keep the forum from degenerating. I recall one (non-Gretsch) forum where a particular point of view appeared in almost every post. It was a point of view that assailed a particular product and spread false information. It almost ended in a lawsuit and came very close to destroying a very good forum.

More than once, I’ve heard criticism of myself, and other moderators, as wannabe policemen. At least in my case, nothing could be further from the truth. I see the file of a moderator more like a Fire Marshall. A Fire Marshall‘s job is to prevent fires. A Fire Marshall learns about risk and learns to minimize the effects of risk.

On a forum, controversy is the tinder that can start a fire. Believe me, I have opinions but this community is not the place to solve the political problems of the world. It’s not that I don’t care about the pandemic, the war in Europe, the economy or any number of other pressing subjects, but I know that these subjects will inevitably lead to disputes. Just like a pile of dry twigs, all it takes is one spark, and there will be a fire. Just like a fire in real life, the damage is lasting, and just like a real life fire, it might pop up again in some unexpected place. Friction between two members in one thread will frequently pop up in another thread, sometimes months later. During COVID, over and over again, if we let a thread on the subject remain up, there would be an argument. The subject was too controversial and in spite of the good intentions of dozens of members, it only took a lapse on the part of one person to ignite a fire, and I’d find myself reluctantly having to remove posts, or quite possibly an entire thread.

Strangely, the most recent controversial topic turned out to be a YouTube video accusing Gretsch of fraud because they had inaccurate info on their website regardimg an entry level bass. Eventually, I deep,sixed the thread, and there was no purpose for it to continue. Gretsch amended their website and (somehow) this didn’t reach the Supreme Court. Since then, at least two people have joined G-T to accuse us of trying to cover for Gretsch by taking that thread down. My answer, for the ages, is that if you have a problem with Gretsch, go talk to them. If they don‘t respond, you can refuse to do business with them in the future, but G-T is not the Gretsch Complaint Department and we are not here to pressure the Gretsch company into anything. Joining G-T just to assail us is an express route to being banned. This is a guitar forum, we are not a consumer watchdog organization, a clearing house for political ideologies, a pressure group. Gretsch, at least at times, has referred to the forums for feedback, and I suspect that they appreciate constructive criticism, but when people accuse them of fraud, no one can blame them for rolling their eyes and closing the page.

One other thing mentioned in this thread that I would like to address are the Gretsch Roundups. I have personally hosted several of these and enjoyed them. However, the participation of Gretsch changed dramatically over the years.

In, roughly, 2009, I got together with Jukebox at his home in Minnesota, and there were several local musicians, as well as some forum members. The next year, there was a a Gretsch sponsored event in Little Falls, MN, including some generous giveaways. It was very enjoyable.

Somewhat later, I hosted an event in Avra Valley, AZ, once again with the generous participation of Gretsch, who gave away some guitars, strings, swag, etc. Bobkat, who used to post here, Mel Waldorf (famed founder of Meshugga Beach Party) and our very own Ishtar, all traveled considerable distance to attend. A year later, we did another one, again with Gretsch participation. Thereafter, Joe Carducci informed me that Gretsch was cutting back on sponsoring these events. We tried one more, without Gretsch sponsorship, but the attendance was poor. A few years ago, I posted a thread gauging interest and got zero replies, so I accepted that as a gauge on interest and didn’t pursue the matter, further.

I had spoken to Joe Carducci about the possibility of Gretsch participation in another Roundup and he said it was possible. Unfortunately, he has since retired, so I’m not holding my breath.

If anyone wants to do a Gretsch Roundup in Arizona, let me know. I know of a nice little fire station in Avra Valley which will rent a room for a reasonable fee and this is relatively convenient for both Tucson and Phoenix. I wouldn’t be in a position to organize it, but I could help with the arrangements, provide a PA, etc.
 

MrWookiee

Country Gent
Jun 17, 2020
1,424
SoCal, USA
Bobkat, who used to post here, Mel Waldorf (famed founder of Meshugga Beach Party) and our very own Ishtar, all traveled considerable distance to attend.
I had the pleasure of meeting Mel (self-described "shmuck") and others at last year's SoCal jam. I had no idea who he was but asked if he was a fan of MBP after recognizing a couple of licks he played. @giffenf said "He *is* MBP". Oops <blush>.
Anyway, as a rank beginner I appreciated the patience, advice, and acceptance of everyone in attendance. There were some seriously good players there who could have just dismissed me as the beginner I was (and still am). Instead, we all just had a good time being ourselves. That's the way G-T makes me feel, too, and why I keep hanging around.
 

Synchro

The artist formerly known as: Synchro
Staff member
Jun 2, 2008
25,814
Tucson
I had the pleasure of meeting Mel (self-described "shmuck") and others at last year's SoCal jam. I had no idea who he was but asked if he was a fan of MBP after recognizing a couple of licks he played. @giffenf said "He *is* MBP". Oops <blush>.
Anyway, as a rank beginner I appreciated the patience, advice, and acceptance of everyone in attendance. There were some seriously good players there who could have just dismissed me as the beginner I was (and still am). Instead, we all just had a good time being ourselves. That's the way G-T makes me feel, too, and why I keep hanging around.
Mel’s a good guy, or in his favored terminology, a “mensch”, no matter how strongly he denies it. :) He has done some imaginative things musically, over the years, and MBP was one heck of an achievement. Playing traditional Jewish music as Surf was a stroke of genius and, having seen them live, was very effective. 51% great music and 49% great shtick. Mel has moved, so I imagine that MBP is on hiatus, for the time being, but if he ever wants to hire a man of the nations from Tucson for a session, I’d be up for it. Actually, I think that the first MBP album was all Mel.

Mel was at one of the Arizona Gretsch Roundups and it was a real pleasure to play on the same stage as him.
 


Top