Bigsby Break Angle and Tuning Stability

[Tele295]

After 40 years of regular Bigsby use on stage, I find that, if there is tuning instability, the chances are the problem is the string is binding at the bridge and/or the nut. I lubricate both contact points with Teflon gun oil at every string change. It works fine, and remains pretty stable. Maintenance, not parts

 

[NewbieBob]

Interesting about the Teflon gun oil treatment. I think that will be my first option.

 

[Redsparklejet]

I own 2 guitars with tension bar Bigsby’s (one B5 and one B7) and have never had tuning stability issues with either. I gather that perhaps I’m in the lucky minority with that.

Neither guitars are traditional Gretsches with high set necks and floating bridges, which I guess factors in.

Both have locking tuners which I presume helps. Both have Biggsfix soft springs on them. I tried a Biggsfix on one of them just for kicks but I ended up actually preferring the stiffer initial feel (that being said it’s an ingenious design and great if you like the softer action). Both have had pro setups (including nut work) and I always lube the nut and saddle slots with string changes.

I’d guess the locking tuners, exacting setup, and lubing the contact points have all bettered my situation with this.

 

[Lacking Talent]

Contrary to the experience of many on this board, and FWIW to any reading this thread, former Gretsch endorser Elliot Easton, lead guitarist of The Cars, is adamant that increased downward tension created by the steeper string angle of a tension bar Bigsby results in greater tuning stability.

 

[TV Nocturne Brain]

like Tele295 said.. string binding in the nut and or saddle slots. To solve this requires not being lazy as it needs you to. A. take the guitar over to a luthier and have them recut a new nut, or replace and cut new saddle slots..or could be as simple as opening up the existing slots /dressing the nut and saddles. or B. buy the tools from stew mac and teach yourself online how to do the job yourself.
( c'mon roller bridges ??)
Once that is taken care of, the problems usually stop. The cheaper guitar should all have their plastic nut trashed and replaced.
My nick13 electrotragic jet not only had its tuning issue solved w a new unbleached bone nut, but the tone improved.
ps. I dont know who said shallow break angle over the bridge was good.. cuz its NOT. Remember you need downward tension for string vibration transfer through the bridge to the body, for tone and sustain. Yet the vis-a-vis is extreme break angle. a les paul w a B7 is good example of that or a B-5 too close to the bridge.

 

[NewbieBob]

Thanks for the tips. All very helpful.

 

[Falconetti]

I find it interesting the number of times ‘replace or recut the nut’ comes up on here as a fix for tuning issues. You would think Gretsch could have learned to cut one by now.

 

[JB5410]

I find it interesting the number of times ‘replace or recut the nut’ comes up on here as a fix for tuning issues. You would think Gretsch could have learned to cut one by now.

agreed. I love my Rat Rod, but I noticed the problem with the nut before I ever played a note. the guitar came from the Korean factory and (except for having to shim the Bigsby) the craftsmanship was wonderful overall. however, those nut slots were cut ridiculously deep. I know there's debate over whether the wound strings should raise above the nut or not, but with short fingernails you almost couldn't touch a single string. neverthelss, the (handily pre-slotted) Tusq XL was such a good upgrade that I guess it was a blessing in disguise.

 

[NewbieBob]

Did you have to do any modification to the Tusq XL or did it just drop in and the slots worked perfectly?

 

[JB5410]

Did you have to do any modification to the Tusq XL or did it just drop in and the slots worked perfectly?

I used the Graph Tech Tusq XL 6143, and I had to sand the bottom to get to the right action; that's the way it's supposed to be done, but it looked to me like the factory lowered the strings just by cutting deeper grooves.

if I recall correctly, I first used 120 grit, then 220 grit, and finally polished with 1000 grit steel wool. I went back and forth a lot because I didn't want to overdo it and have to start all over again ... with a new nut. still, it wasn't difficult, and I'm hardly a professional.

the old one came out very easily: you just loosen the strings, pull them to the side, put a block against the nut, and gently tap it out. I saw then that there was some paint run from the headstock down into the nut groove, so I VERY gently sanded that just a bit. as long as you have a large enough sheet of sandpaper on a totally flat surface, you just have to run the Tusq back and forth. it's such a soft material that it will sand down very easily.

then I'd put it in place, put the strings in the slots, tune it back up, and then measure the string height at various frets. for example, I think it's supposed to be around 2/100ths of an inch at the first fret, but I left it between .002 & .003. I probably ran 10 to 20 back-and-forth strokes and then checked, and I had to go back and forth maybe 3 or 4 times, so in hindsight I'd probably have done a little more initially, but better safe than sorry.

the only thing that made me nervous (and saw this on other forums & YouTube videos) is that the graphite doesn't take wood glue well, so I brushed the tiniest dab of super glue onto the front corners--where the nut is basically joining the fretboard, not underneath the nut. the superglue is going to dry almost immediately so you really want it in the right spot, but mine turned out just fine.

once it was in, the slots were fine, but I file the back ends so that the strings follow a more natural path toward the tuning post. for that I used a .050" nut file on the E, A, & D strings and a .032" nut file on the G, B, & E strings. there you don't want to touch the front part at all, but on the back end it really helps with tuning stability.

P.S. I would *not* want to get a blank nut and have to file it! the pre-slotted was the only way to go for me, and I've played 11s, 10.5s, and now 10s, and the nut has been just fine.

 

[NewbieBob]

Thanks!

 

[TV Nocturne Brain]

I used the Graph Tech Tusq XL 6143, and I had to sand the bottom to get to the right action; that's the way it's supposed to be done, but it looked to me like the factory lowered the strings just by cutting deeper grooves.

if I recall correctly, I first used 120 grit, then 220 grit, and finally polished with 1000 grit steel wool. I went back and forth a lot because I didn't want to overdo it and have to start all over again ... with a new nut. still, it wasn't difficult, and I'm hardly a professional.

the old one came out very easily: you just loosen the strings, pull them to the side, put a block against the nut, and gently tap it out. I saw then that there was some paint run from the headstock down into the nut groove, so I VERY gently sanded that just a bit. as long as you have a large enough sheet of sandpaper on a totally flat surface, you just have to run the Tusq back and forth. it's such a soft material that it will sand down very easily.

then I'd put it in place, put the strings in the slots, tune it back up, and then measure the string height at various frets. for example, I think it's supposed to be around 2/100ths of an inch at the first fret, but I left it between .002 & .003. I probably ran 10 to 20 back-and-forth strokes and then checked, and I had to go back and forth maybe 3 or 4 times, so in hindsight I'd probably have done a little more initially, but better safe than sorry.

the only thing that made me nervous (and saw this on other forums & YouTube videos) is that the graphite doesn't take wood glue well, so I brushed the tiniest dab of super glue onto the front corners--where the nut is basically joining the fretboard, not underneath the nut. the superglue is going to dry almost immediately so you really want it in the right spot, but mine turned out just fine.

once it was in, the slots were fine, but I file the back ends so that the strings follow a more natural path toward the tuning post. for that I used a .050" nut file on the E, A, & D strings and a .032" nut file on the G, B, & E strings. there you don't want to touch the front part at all, but on the back end it really helps with tuning stability.

P.S. I would *not* want to get a blank nut and have to file it! the pre-slotted was the only way to go for me, and I've played 11s, 10.5s, and now 10s, and the nut has been just fine.

I had to literally ROUTE that damn OG Graphtech nut out, to get a new white tusq XL nut in mine. It was perm. in the guitar so whatever they used back in 99' was not forward thinking I didnt mess around though, I took the guitar down to Steven Soest in OC (fender cstm shop recommended luthier) and had him cut and shape me one to fit my 6120SSU to perfection. The nut is everything on the guitar, for me. I lose mind w stock nuts. My other guitars get unbleached bone (slippery) nuts, but bigsbys want the tusq xl and coated strings, its all good from that point on

 

[TV Nocturne Brain]

Did you have to do any modification to the Tusq XL or did it just drop in and the slots worked perfectly

thats not possible Pre slotted means they've taken care of the basic shape and spacing. You have to file and dress for your string choice as well as some basic edge shaping. All worth it though

 

[JB5410]

I had to literally ROUTE that damn OG Graphtech nut out, to get a new white tusq XL nut in mine. It was perm. in the guitar so whatever they used back in 99' was not forward thinking I didnt mess around though, I took the guitar down to Steven Soest in OC (fender cstm shop recommended luthier) and had him cut and shape me one to fit my 6120SSU to perfection. The nut is everything on the guitar, for me. I lose mind w stock nuts. My other guitars get unbleached bone (slippery) nuts, but bigsbys want the tusq xl and coated strings, its all good from that point on

that's crazy! on a professional [Gretsch] model (if I could afford one!) I too would take it to a professional [luthier]. I ran a new set of strings across my Tusq XL and found that the pre-slots were fine--at least for the gauge I play. the trick on the back end, though ... I'd never heard of that until a few months ago, but it's made all the difference in the world on both the Gretsches I've owned.